Mesothelioma at Illinois Central Railroad (Paducah Locomotive Shops) in KY (Podcast)

In this episode, John Maher speaks with Paul Kelley of Satterley & Kelley about asbestos exposure and mesothelioma claims related to Illinois Central Railroad’s Paducah Locomotive Shops. Paul details how employees were exposed to asbestos while working on locomotives and other equipment, leading to serious diseases like mesothelioma. He explains the Federal Employers Liability Act (FELA), which allows railroad workers to sue their employers for damages, including pain and suffering. The discussion also covers the history of asbestos use, the railroad’s knowledge of its dangers, and legal steps for affected employees.

John Maher: Hi, I am John Maher and I’m here today with Paul Kelley. Paul is a partner with the Kentucky Personal Injury Law Firm, Satterley & Kelley, which has over 45 years of collective experience in litigating mesothelioma and asbestos claims. Today we’re talking about mesothelioma at Illinois Central Railroad in Paducah, Kentucky. Welcome Paul.

Paul Kelley: Hey, John. How are you doing today?

Maher: I’m doing well. How are you?

Kelley: I’m doing great, thank you.

About Illinois Central Railroad

Maher: So, Paul, tell me a little bit about Illinois Central Railroad, in particular, the Paducah Locomotive Shop in Paducah, Kentucky and what they were, what they did there.

Kelley: Sure. So of course, as you know, back in the 1800s and early 1900s, the most common method of transporting goods throughout the United States was through railroads and it’s still certainly something that’s prevalent today. The Illinois Central Railroad is one of our oldest railroad operating companies in the United States, and it resulted through a series of mergers and acquisitions. Typically, Illinois Central kind of operated in the Kentucky, Tennessee, Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, kind of in that area.

And we don’t need to get into it today, but railroads are very territorial and there were several different railroads throughout the United States. There’s Pacific railroads that control that area and Southern railroads and Northeast railroads. Well, Illinois Central was in this central part of the United States and the shops that were at issue here in Paducah, Kentucky, the Locomotive Shop, in some form, that the Paducah Railroad began in the mid-1800s, I think even before the Civil War.

And then as we got into 1915, 1916, the Illinois Central acquired the old Paducah Railroad. And then in 1925 through 1927, Illinois Central constructed what is now known as the Paducah Locomotive Shops. And the Paducah Locomotive Shops comprised of four different buildings. It was a huge facility, but the main buildings were the locomotive shop, the boiler shop, the blacksmith shop, and the tank shop. And then there were 30-some odd other buildings that were located all throughout the facility that had different activities. It covered 110 acres.

The shops were located in the heart of Paducah. I would imagine that anybody who is familiar with Paducah in McCracken County Kentucky that might be listening, they know exactly where the Paducah Locomotive Shops. The building, while not in operation today, is still there and you can pass by it and see the ruins of what was once a hustling, bustling source of activity for decades in Paducah, Kentucky.

How is Paducah Locomotive Shops Part of Illinois Central Railroad?

Maher: Okay. And so how is the Paducah Locomotive Shops part of Illinois Central Railroad? How are they associated with asbestos and mesothelioma cancer claims?

Kelley: Well, unfortunately, a lot of the activities there over the years exposed people to asbestos. What they did in that shop is they worked on the locomotives. It was a repair shop. And locomotives had several components back in that timeframe. And when I say that timeframe, it opened in 1920s, but from the ’30s through the ’70s and ’80s, a lot of the locomotives had boilers that were actually on the trains. The engines that carried all those cars and those boilers were covered with asbestos.

And they worked on those boilers in the shops. So, most people are very familiar with the automobile garage, and a lot of automobile garages had pits. And so you drive the car over the pit and then guys would go underneath the pit and work underneath the car. Well, it’s the same concept on these train locomotives. The shops had pits. There were dozens of them in the shops.

The trains come in and they would do a lot of work above and below the pits. And so a lot of the work that they did was removing and replacing the thermal insulation that was contained on these boilers. And these are pretty big boilers. They’re not giant boilers like what you see in a powerhouse, but they’re still many feet high, many feet wide, ultimately substantial square feet and they were all covered with asbestos insulation.

There’s piping that ran all throughout these boilers also. And so we have represented a lot of people that worked on them. They were mechanics essentially but called machinists, and their jobs were to work on these locomotives and to remove and replace this insulation. Or they’re working on other components of the train, they’re working in the pits and people are just throwing that insulation down into the pits and they’re being exposed in that way.

That was the most significant probably over the history of this plant. But also locomotive brakes contain asbestos. Automobile brakes contained asbestos for many years. Well, so did train locomotive brakes. And so there were mechanics that replaced the brakes, and they have dozens of brakes that are on these train cars or these locomotives. And so, folks would have to replace those and replace a lot of them. Removing the old brake resulted in a lot of the wear dust that would expose people. Putting the new brake on or the new friction product on would expose people to asbestos in that way. There were all kinds of engine gaskets that contained asbestos. And so replacing those engine gaskets would expose people to asbestos.

Well, then there’s the plant itself. The plant itself was built in 1927. In 1927 and in the ’30s and all through the ’60s and ’70s, any steam piping, any pieces of equipment that required high temperature applications would be insulated with asbestos and people would be exposed both during the installation process, the removal process, if it’s disturbed, if it’s deteriorated and it falls on people. Piping, all the steam piping in the plant contained gaskets or had gaskets that went in between the piping that contained asbestos. Lots of times they had floor tiles in the facility that contained asbestos and they would replace that floor tile from time to time, and they’d have to scrape it up, and then that would expose people to asbestos.

And then all these tanks and vessels and other pieces of high temperature equipment that were in the plant frequently would be insulated with asbestos. And people that worked on those things or people who were nearby working on those things would be exposed to asbestos. And guys, that was common really throughout the history of the plant. I know they closed it down within the last 25 years or so but the plant, the building still exists today. Nothing happens in there to my knowledge, but I’m very confident that if we went in there today, we would probably still see some asbestos-containing materials in the plant.

Were Employees Aware They Were Being Exposed to Asbestos?

Maher: So, was Illinois Central aware that employees were being exposed to asbestos and that asbestos would potentially result in disease like mesothelioma somewhere down the line?

Kelley: Absolutely. We’ve been doing this for a long time. We’ve had dozens, if not hundreds of cases against railroads. And we can probably talk about this for a long time if we wanted. But the biggest battle that we fight in asbestos cases, because the latency period for contraction of mesothelioma is at least 20 years, but frequently, 50, 60, 70 years. Takes a long time.

So, if somebody is exposed in 2024, they’re not going to get this cancer next year or even five years or 10 years. It’s probably going to be 20, 30, 40, 50 years. So we get a lot from a lot of defendants that say, “We didn’t know. We didn’t know. We didn’t know that it was that bad. We relied upon manufacturers, we relied upon other entities, and nobody told us it was bad.” I’ve got all kinds of responses to that. I disagree with that vehemently. But railroads were extremely proactive in the 1930s and ’40s, ’50s in studying the impact of asbestos exposure on their employees. And Illinois Central was a part of that.

And they formulated the American Association of Railroads. It went by a slightly different name back then, but that’s essentially what it is. It was formed maybe in the ’10s, but certainly the ’20s and ’30s, and they started seeing employees developing asbestosis, which is an asbestos-related disease. And they started examining it and investigating it and I think that they came to the conclusion that their employees were being exposed to asbestos and that it was causing them disease. The problem is they really didn’t do anything about it. They didn’t provide any protections. They didn’t provide masks, respirators. They didn’t provide asbestos safety training. They didn’t put up signage in the facilities or anything in their handbooks associated with asbestos until very, very late, 1970s after…

I mean, you had generations that worked for railroads, I mean for a company like this. These shops started in 1927. There were lots of second and in some cases, third generation men who worked in those facilities. And maybe at the tail end of that third generation did they really start to provide any information concerning asbestos, did they really start to take any protective measures at all.

But again, for somebody that was exposed in 1955, it doesn’t really do them a lot of good in 1977 to start doing something about it. And Illinois Central, and quite frankly all of the major railroads that were in operation beginning in the ’20s and ’30s, they had some knowledge early on that asbestos was capable of causing a fatal injury. And as the years progressed, that knowledge developed. They just failed to share it with the most important people which were the people that were neck deep in it every day for 20, 30, 40 years of their life.

Why Did Illinois Central Railroad Do The Investigation?

Maher: Right. So obviously they could have and should have given that information to their employees. Why do you think that they did this investigation in the first place when a lot of other companies that used asbestos in their manufacturing plants or wherever didn’t even look into the problem? Why did the railroads actually… At least they attempted to try to figure out where the problem was coming from.

Kelley: Well, it’s certainly hard to say that the cynic in me, and I’m a very cynical person, John. I’ve been doing this for a long time and my adversaries have given me a reason to be. The cynical reason and I think the likely reason is because they wanted to get ahead of it. They wanted to start formulating their defense before the rest of the world caught up. And we’ve seen that a lot in other contexts. You’re probably familiar with the cigarette manufacturers and their efforts to conceal from the public that cigarettes cause lung cancer.

Maher: Mm-hmm.

Kelley: Well, the railroads essentially concealed from their employees and the public about this exposure and this resulting disease that was happening to railroad workers across America. And we see a lot of the documentation from the American Association of Railroads that lawyers were heavily involved in that organization for many years. They were talking about lawsuits in the 1950s, how to deal with and how to defend lawsuits.

So, if the knowledge had been developed and we started to see safeguards from day one, I would tell you that the motivation was clearly for the protection of their workers. But the reality of it is, and what actually happened, is this knowledge was developed and ultimately acted upon to prevent having to compensate their employees for causing them cancer and other injuries.

And this wasn’t unique to asbestos exposure. There were all kinds of different things at the railroad that could cause people fatal or certainly life-changing injuries. And they did a lot of similar things with a lot of other types of substances and it was not for the benefit of their employees. It was to protect their bottom line. And I think it worked for a lot of years, and certainly with asbestos exposure, because they knew that it would take years before people would develop the disease, the people who were in charge at the time knew that they probably wouldn’t have to worry about it when the disease actually manifested because they would be long gone.

What Should Employees of Paducah Locomotive Shops Do if they Have Mesothelioma?

Maher: Right, absolutely. So if you worked at the Paducah Locomotive Shops at Illinois Central Railroad and now you have asbestosis or mesothelioma or lung cancer from asbestos exposure, what should you do next?

Kelley: So, this is a little bit different than most of the situations that we’ve talked about. So Illinois Central as a railroad employer, it’s governed by what we call the Federal Employers Liability Act, FELA, I call it FELA. And FELA is a heightened workers’ compensation system for railroad workers. In the standard workers’ compensation laws, I’m here in Kentucky. Under Kentucky workers’ compensation laws if you have non-railroad work, you can’t really sue your employer. You can file what’s called a workers’ compensation claim. And all you can recover in that kind of claim is your medical expenses, your lost income, and some future benefits to the extent that you have future losses. There’s no pain and suffering which is a significant component of someone’s damages when they are diagnosed with asbestosis or mesothelioma. FELA lets you file a lawsuit directly against your railroad employer and in that context, you can recover pain and suffering.

And again, most of our verdicts historically that we’ve gotten the greatest component, the greatest amount of damages awarded by the jury is for pain and suffering. When defendants want to settle the case, they are offering significant money because they’re concerned that the jury’s going to award lots of pain and suffering because quite frankly, people that are diagnosed with this cancer endure a lot of physical and mental pain and suffering. So FELA allows you to sue your employer and to get medical expenses, lost income, and pain and suffering. And what’s even better about it is you have three years to file your case as opposed to Kentucky Law where we only have one year.

Maher: Um.

Kelley: And even better, if the railroad is responsible at all, 1%, the railroad is on the hook for all of your damages. And that’s a phenomenal benefit that the statute, that the law provides, because frequently people will have multiple kinds of exposures and maybe not just railroad exposure, but if the case were to go to trial and the jury said the railroad is even 1% at fault and awards, I’ll just make it up, two million dollars, the railroad’s on the hook for two million dollars regardless of who else was at fault.

Maher: Okay.

Kelley: Now, the downside to it is you have to prove that the railroad knew or should have known that they were exposing you to a hazard and that your exposure to asbestos while working for the railroad caused your disease. In other words, you have to prove their fault. You have to prove that they did something wrong to cause your exposure that resulted in your cancer. Your typical workers’ comp scenario, which this isn’t, but your typical workers’ comp, you don’t have to prove fault. You just have to prove a work-related injury.

FELA gives you greater benefits, but it does require you to prove a little bit more than the typical workers’ comp case. But if you work for the railroad, the good news is, is you can file a case directly against Illinois Central Railroad or any railroad that you worked for that was responsible for causing your disease, and you can recover just from the railroad regardless of whether anybody else was responsible at all for causing your disease.

Now, just because you can sue the railroad doesn’t mean that there aren’t other responsible parties that you can pursue a case against as well. To the extent that there are any product manufacturers that provided products to the railroad, they can be sued. There’s a bankruptcy trust process where you can file bankruptcy claims. Sometimes there are contractors that worked at the facility that you can still pursue a case against them as well, but you have to bear in mind that that statute of limitations for them reverts back to that one year as opposed to the three year for your railroad defendant. So you have a little bit more time than you do, and you’ve got a little bit better scheme than what you do in a typical employer situation, but the facts still remain that your goal is to move as quickly as you possibly can for a variety of different reasons.

How to Show That the Railroad Knew of Should have Known Asbestos was Dangerous

Maher: Right. Now, you mentioned that in this type of case against the railroad, that you actually have to show that the railroad knew that you might be exposed to asbestos and that it might cause you injury. But given that you understand that even as far back as the, would you say the 1920s or ’30s that they started to look into why their employees were getting asbestosis and they’ve kind of figured out that yeah, asbestos was not good and that it was causing their employees to be sick. You have that information. So does that help your case in that regard that it shows that the railroad really should have known that their employees were getting sick because of this?

Kelley: Yeah, that’s a great question. And so the answer is a little complicated. Certainly in Paul Kelley’s view of the world, that ought to be dispositive of the situation because they were well versed that asbestos would cause some harm by the time the kinds of people that I’m going to be working for today were exposed. I mean, I’m not working for people that were exposed in the ’20s. I’m working for people that were exposed in the ’50s, ’60s, and ’70s.

And certainly, all of those efforts that were being conducted by the [inaudible 00:23:04] and this specific railroad certainly put them on notice. What does make it a little bit complicated is the disease process. Mesothelioma wasn’t recognized by science, by doctors until 1960. It existed, of course, long before 1960. They just called it lung cancer.

But mesothelioma was first identified in the medical and scientific literature in 1960 in the first published paper. And so we do get a lot of defense that, well, we knew asbestosis could be caused if people got a heavy, heavy, heavy dose of exposure, but we didn’t know about mesothelioma until a little bit later. And it took a while before the medical and scientific literature really blossomed into more than a smattering of articles here and there.

So, unfortunately, and again, this gets back to the cynic in me, they always have some “yeah, but” argument that they make. The reason why that argument shouldn’t fly is because under FELA and all the case law that’s been reported by the United States Supreme Court and certainly Kentucky Courts, is that they don’t have to know about the precise harm, they just have to know that their conduct could cause some harm.

And that’s the challenge to prove to a judge and jury that A) they knew about mesothelioma when it happened because again, we’re to believe that for 40 years they studied the relationship between asbestos exposure and disease. But then when mesothelioma was discovered in the early 1960s or officially identified, that suddenly they got ignorant, that they didn’t understand this new medical literature. But even if that were true, even if that were true, the law still says, “Hey, if you knew that your conduct, that your workplace conditions would cause some harm, it really doesn’t matter what ultimately befell any of these people.”

And then on top of that, I mean, 1956 Kentucky, for example, enacted an occupational disease statute that regulated asbestos. 1963 they amended it slightly, but the gist of it was still asbestos-regulated substance, lot of requirements. And then of course by 1971, the federal government enacted OSHA. I mean, these companies knew about mesothelioma, they knew about it in the ’50s. They knew about it in the ’60s. So it makes our job easier in my view, to prove the knowledge, but it doesn’t make it easy, if that makes sense, because we still have to have to counter bad faith, cynical defenses asserted by our adversaries.

Maher: All right. Well, that’s really great information, Paul. Thanks again for speaking with me today.

Kelley: Thanks, John. I appreciate it.

More Information About the Law Firm of Satterley and Kelley

Maher: And for more information about mesothelioma and asbestos exposure, visit the law firm of Satterley and Kelley at satterleylaw.com or call 855-385-9532.