Asbestos & Mesothelioma for Sheet Metal Workers
In this episode, we outline where sheet metal workers encountered asbestos across industrial job sites, the diseases linked to exposure, and what workers and families should consider medically and legally after a diagnosis.
John Maher: Hi, I am John Maher and I’m here today with Paul Kelley. Paul is a partner with the Kentucky personal injury law firm, Satterley & Kelley, which has over 45 years of collective experience in litigating mesothelioma and asbestos claims. Today we’re talking about asbestos exposure and mesothelioma with sheet metal workers. Welcome, Paul.
Paul Kelley: Hey, John. How’s it going today?
John: Good, thanks. How are you?
Paul: Doing great, thank you.
Workplaces Sheet Metal Workers Served and Asbestos Risk Factors
John: Paul, tell me what kinds of companies or job sites did sheet metal workers typically work at, and why were those environments such high risk for asbestos exposure?
Paul: So sheet metal workers — and again, this is a trade that a lot of people might not exactly know what they do, but you see them all the time — sheet metal workers are…they’re basically the HVAC industry and they fabricate ductwork that is installed into a variety of locations and they have to have a significant amount of expertise in what they do. This ductwork can be utilized for the simple function of heating and air conditioning. It can be used for exhaust duct, to try to filter out harmful contaminants. It can be used as an exhaust duct for filtering out chemicals. Quite frankly, sheet metal workers worked everywhere. So if you talk about the offices or the facilities that you and I are in right now, office buildings, hospitals, schools, a lot of school work, factories, they certainly worked in homes and then they worked in all kinds of industrial and manufacturing plants.
I mean, every place that you can think of needed ductwork. And that required the expertise and knowledge of sheet metal workers to be able to do. Shipyards, where these massive naval ships or even recreational vehicles or ships and all those things, automotive plants, aerospace factories, power plants, steel mills, foundries, chemical plants and refineries, railroads. So, sheet metal workers were everywhere, and they did their work in every kind of facility that you could think of, whether it was new construction or whether it was significant renovation, maintenance stuff, that’s where sheet metal workers did their work. And I mean, think about how much ductwork is in your average home. Well now multiply that by 100 when you think about the size of these power plants or these manufacturing plants.
And sheet metal workers had to know a lot. They had to understand how to read blueprints, engineering specifications, and they had to understand how to measure and where to put things and those sort of things. Unfortunately, many of the places that they worked in were older facilities that were built many, many years ago, that had lots of asbestos-containing products within those facilities. I mean, power plants were well known for it, manufacturing plants, steel mills. And so a sheet metal worker, particularly those that did a lot of industrial and commercial type work, they were frequently in environments where asbestos was present. And that probably was true even into the 2000s.
I’ve represented sheet metal workers who described going into the facilities less than 10 years ago, where they encountered asbestos-containing materials. And so, unfortunately, if they worked in places that were built before 1980, then there is a significant likelihood that they were exposed to asbestos. And of course, sheet metal workers, they don’t stay in the same place all day every day for 40, 50 years. They work everywhere. And so, the chance that they would encounter asbestos frequently in any given year was extremely substantial.
Daily Tasks that Created Asbestos Exposure
John: So what were some of the daily work that sheet metal workers did that exposed them to asbestos? Obviously you don’t have asbestos in the metal itself that they’re directly working with, but were these ducts wrapped with asbestos or was it just that they were in close proximity to asbestos containing things, like pipes and things like that?
Paul: No, that’s a great question and it’s a little bit of both. So ductwork frequently was wrapped with an asbestos insulation, and the typical experience that I would hear about is the sheet metal workers install certain sections of ductwork, and then right behind them are insulators that are insulating what they’ve already put up and they’re continuing to put on down the line or they have to tear out insulation that is existing in order to install the new [insulation], and then that ductwork was all insulated with asbestos. And so they had to remove the ductwork, remove the insulation.
It’s interesting, sometimes the inside of the ductwork was insulated, sometimes the outside of the ductwork was insulated, and so it would be a little bit different process of how they would be exposed if it was the inside or outside, because if it was the inside, they could remove the ductwork frequently without getting too deeply into the insulation. But if it was on the outside, you’ve got to tear it off and there’s just no way to avoid it. The other interesting thing about ductwork is, I think I mentioned a moment ago that a lot of the ductwork is what we call “exhaust duct”.
And so you’ll have, for example, a dust collection system that would be in a manufacturing plant, even a powerhouse, and that ductwork is going to collect the contaminants that are in the facility and anything that gets in the air, that ductwork is ultimately going to suck it all in. And not all of it’s going to go into where it’s supposed to go. Some of it’s going to stay in that ductwork and it’s going to accumulate in that ductwork. And so we hear that a lot, that when we go into a manufacturing plant and they have a dust collection system that’s connected to this ductwork, we’re tearing out or working on the ductwork and inside of it is just a mess. And it’s not unrealistic or a stretch to say that some of the dust and materials that have accumulated inside the ductwork contain asbestos. But certainly what you just mentioned a moment ago, they frequently worked around other crafts.
All that ductwork, like in my office right now, which we don’t have asbestos, but all of our ductwork is in the area above our ceiling. We have a drop ceiling, like many people do, and so the ductwork and the pipes and the electrical components are all there. And frequently, the sheet metal workers are working right alongside the pipe fitters, the insulators, the electricians, and any insulated pipe that’s in the area that’s getting disturbed, either from the sheet metal worker having incidental contact with it or somebody else working on those things.
So that was a significant [method] of exposure. Sheet metal workers have to tear into walls frequently. They’re installing new duct. And frequently, back in the ’50s through ’70s, drywall and the joint compounds that were used to finish out drywall frequently contained asbestos. And so they would have to cut into that drywall, use saws and knives and those sort of things, create a lot of dust and have some exposure that way. We also see a lot of cases wherein some of these manufacturing plants which are not office buildings, the walls are completely, entirely made of asbestos called transite, and transite was an asbestos cement, a corrugated material. I guarantee you’ve seen it before. And it was pretty hard cement. And for many years, and there were various [types] for many years, that material could contain 15% to 25%, 35% asbestos.
So if they’re putting vents in, or connecting ductwork through walls, they have to saw and drill into the transite, and that’s a heck of a lot harder to do than doing it in the drywall because this is a cement material. And so they had to use an industrial saw in order to do it. And the studies have demonstrated how much exposure someone would get from doing that activity. We also see a lot of people, or have represented a lot of people…you’ve seen it before. You go to a hotel sometime, and if you’re sitting on a high floor and you look down and there’s air conditioners that are sitting on top of the building. Well, sheet metal workers are the ones who helped install those. And they have to cut holes into the roofs of these buildings in order to install their pieces of equipment. And it’s usually, in the trade, they call it an air handler, but you and I know it as an air conditioner.
And you’ve seen these things before. I mean, some of them are very significant size and you’ll look and see that there’s like 10 of them all in a row. Well, sheet metal workers are frequently the craft that creates those holes in order to place those air handlers in. And we’ve represented a number of people who have had…the roofs were made of the transite, like we talked about, or a lot of roofs were what we call “built up”. So you have the concrete roof, but then over the concrete roof is felt, tar paper, insulation, shingles. And for many years those types of things contained asbestos. And so our clients, the sheet metal workers, had to cut 12×12 holes into that material, shovel it up, get it out, and frequently, it contained asbestos. Roof flashing frequently contained asbestos.
And then sheet metal workers, they did some things like working in powerhouses. And they didn’t typically work on the turbines and boilers themselves, but they worked on things associated with the turbines and boilers. Turbines and boilers were heavily insulated with asbestos, both inside and outside, and they would work around other trades. I just had a deposition of a sheet metal worker recently who described the environment he worked in as a jungle of pipes, insulated pipe. That his work was basically in between all this insulated pipe and his ductwork is substantial in size and, despite best efforts, he wasn’t intentionally trying to wreck or disturb or damage the insulation that was on the piping, but it’s unavoidable and they would be exposed in that way.
And they also do things like cut out big pieces of equipment. I’ve had sheet metal workers describe going into foundries, where they have these huge industrial fans. And I mean, we’re talking huge. We’re talking thousands of pounds, and old fans, and they have to cut them out with blowtorches and they have to ultimately remove them with a crane. And in fact, they have to knock holes in the walls in order to get the crane in to move them out. And lots of times those fans, I mean, it’s just terrible collection of dust and debris that gets into the fans that they’re exposed to.
And that’s just a common experience that the sheet metal workers have had over the years. And again, they work in these environments, and they contain all these various types of things. And they go in and you’ve got your big blades and you’ve got your torches and shovels and just a lot of different things. And when they get done, at the end of the day, they don’t look like you and I do when we get done with our work day. They are covered in dust and certainly a big, big portion of that dust, on any given day, [had] significant levels of asbestos.
Long‑Term Health Effects from Asbestos Exposure
John: Yeah, it’s interesting because, like I said, you think about sheet metal workers and you just think that they’re working with just ductwork and metal, but like you said, there’s just lots of insulation, lots of cutting through walls and roofs and things like that that have asbestos in them. So that’s interesting. How has that asbestos exposure affected sheet metal workers over the years and what are the long-term health risks that they face?
Paul: So sheet metal workers, particularly folks that started in the business in the ’60s and ’70s, I mean they were heavily exposed for many years and it put them at significant risk for the types of asbestos diseases that are most common. And that’s mesothelioma, which is cancer of the lining of the lung and can be the lining of the stomach, and in some instances can be the lining of the heart. And it is a very rare cancer, but it’s a terrible and usually deadly cancer. Lung cancer is a very common occurrence, with respect to people who worked in the sheet metal trade. Of course, a lot of people did smoke, but a lot of them did not. But even for the ones who smoke, there’s what we call the synergistic effect between cigarettes and asbestos exposure that really increases their risk of developing lung cancer associated with asbestos exposure.
There is a scarring of the lungs called asbestosis that is the scarring of the “meat” of the lungs. And if it gets significant enough, it actually restricts the ability of the lung to expand and contract and people can suffocate as a result of that disease. So it’s terrible. And the information that sheet metal workers got in the beginning, and when I say the beginning, for many of my clients, they started in the trade in the ’60s and for many years they had no information. So they didn’t know what they were involved in. And then in the ’90s, 2000s, you started seeing some of their colleagues develop these cancers and diseases that we’ve talked about.
And I’ve had so many of my clients say, “Well, gosh, I didn’t know about it, so I didn’t worry about it. Well, now I know about it and I’m worried that I’m going to develop cancer sometime,” and then unfortunately, many of them have. And sheet metal workers, it’s been reported in the medical and scientific literature that not only are they at a significant risk of asbestos disease, but a significant portion of sheet metal workers have in fact developed all of the types of asbestos diseases that physicians and scientists have identified. And it’s been a terrible trade for people to be involved in, just from the long-lasting health impacts of being exposed for all of those years.
Long‑Term Health Effects from Asbestos Exposure
John: So looking back, what did companies in general know about the asbestos risks for sheet metal workers and did they let the workers know about those risks?
Paul: So it depends a little bit, but for the most part, I think industry, the types of places that our sheet metal workers worked at were well aware of the hazards of asbestos, going back to probably before the 1950s. And they frequently participated in the Industrial Hygiene Foundation, which was an organization that a lot of companies put together back in the ’30s and ’40s to study workplace risks, including asbestos. And so many of them were armed with this knowledge a long, long time ago. By the 1930s and ’40s, many states had Occupational Disease Acts that regulated asbestos. Kentucky enacted our first Occupational Disease Act in 1956, so we’re talking 70 years ago now.
OSHA came into effect in 1971, and certainly by that point, there’s not much of an excuse for a power plant or a manufacturing facility to not be aware of the health risks associated with asbestos. But the problem was that it wasn’t well communicated to contractor employees, and they were really the last to know. So my typical sheet metal client is one who didn’t work for the power plant, didn’t work for the manufacturing plant, didn’t work for the steel mill, they worked for contractors that specialized in that business, the sheet metal business. And I mean the property owners didn’t know specifically who our clients were, and they had a attitude that those people weren’t our responsibility. They were somebody else’s responsibility.
And the information that they had about what was present in their plant typically was not communicated to our clients and probably was not communicated to our client’s employers. And what I hear a lot is, “Paul,” — and this is from my adversaries — “You know that your client’s employer was aware of the hazards and risks associated with asbestos. They had to be because of the emerging regulations on it.” And my response to that is, “Well, maybe, but I think we’re missing one big component here. What information did they have that there was asbestos at your facility when they worked there?” Because sheet metal workers don’t have the expertise to identify asbestos. And they have expertise in a lot of things and are very good at their work and very good at their jobs, but they don’t have the asbestos expertise in most instances. And they relied upon a property owner, a premises owner, to say, “Don’t go over there because we have asbestos over there,” or, “We need you to work over there, but you have to wear respirators or masks.” That kind of thing didn’t happen.
And even when we see internal policies in the ’90s, when there was a little bit of effort to notify some contractors of the presence of asbestos, it was not folks like sheet metal workers. It was the abatement contractors, the people that were hired to come in and remove the asbestos. But I’ve not seen any great effort by any of our usual defendants at any point in time to notify contractors, employees of contractors, people coming on their property as to the presence, location and hazards associated with asbestos there. And quite frankly, that’s why I have to do what I have to do, because I think that most of my clients, if they were armed with that knowledge, they would have done something to protect themselves. And if they couldn’t do that, then they would’ve chosen another profession.
Medical and Legal Steps After a Diagnosis
John: Right. So if someone worked as a sheet metal worker and now they’ve been diagnosed with mesothelioma, what steps should they take both medically and legally?
Paul: So medically, it’s really important to work with your healthcare team and your family to come up with a course of treatment that you’re comfortable with. Everybody’s going to be different, depending on when they were diagnosed, personal beliefs, location, geography, where you’re at. But there’s a lot of options that are available today that weren’t available 20 years ago, and it’s just up to individuals and their families as to what all they want to do in order to try to fight this cancer. And that may require travel, it may require surgeries, may require chemotherapy, immunotherapy, but it’s certainly something that you should do your research on and make sure that you feel comfortable with whatever plan you and your team develops.
Unfortunately, in most situations, we don’t have a lot of time to pursue a claim. In Kentucky, we only have a year to file a case. I usually try to tell everybody, “You have to get that case filed within a year of your diagnosis,” and there can be some exceptions to that rule, but you’re going to be in fine shape if you get it filed within that year, but you don’t really don’t want to wait close to that year because, unfortunately, the impact of these diseases, particularly mesothelioma, is devastating. And the statistics show that most people die from mesothelioma within six months to 18 months of diagnosis. And that doesn’t give us a lot of time, doesn’t give you a lot of time to get everything in line.
If you hire me, my singular focus is to get your deposition in, so that you can tell everybody how you were exposed and you can tell everyone how this disease has impacted you and your family. And the longer you wait, the more risk there is that you won’t have that opportunity. It doesn’t mean that there’s no case, but it makes that case harder and it makes it difficult on the victim because, lots of times, they want to be able to say their peace and tell their story the way they want it to be told and to tell judge, jury, defendants, me, everybody, how this disease has impacted them.
And it’s unfortunate that we have to move quickly like that, but we do and I just highly recommend that you do your research early and you hire the attorneys that you feel comfortable with. You hire the attorneys that you feel are experienced in this area of the law and that hopefully have knowledge of the places that you worked and the things that you did and can really hit the ground running to help you and your family as quickly as possible and try to get the recovery that you really deserve.
John: All right. Well that’s really great information, Paul. Thanks again for speaking with me today.
Paul: Thanks, John.
John: And for more information about mesothelioma and asbestos exposure, visit the law firm of Satterley & Kelley at satterleylaw.com or call (855) 385-9532.