Mesothelioma Diagnosis

Tips for Families on Coping with a Mesothelioma Diagnosis (Podcast)

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Writer Doug McNamee talks about how he coped with his father’s mesothelioma diagnosis, and what he found helpful along the way.

John Maher: Hi, I’m John Maher. I’m here today with Doug McNamee. Doug is a writer whose father was diagnosed with mesothelioma in 2008 and passed away in May of 2009, which led Doug down a path of researching mesothelioma and asbestos, which has continued to this day. Today, we’re talking about tips for families on coping with a mesothelioma diagnosis. Doug, thanks for joining me.

Doug McNamee: Thank you, John. I appreciate it. 

How Did You Process the News About the Diagnosis?

John: So, Doug, when your dad was first diagnosed with mesothelioma, how did you start to process that news?

Doug: Well, I think after the initial shock and being dumbfounded…I think dumbfounded was a pretty accurate description of how both my mom and I felt about it. My mom probably reacted on a more emotional level, but for me, I was just in a state of shock. So, I don’t think I really processed it. I think I just wanted to know what it was and how my dad could have ever been exposed or have cancer because he just seemed like somebody…of all the people around who get afflicted with things and you can understand it, I guess I just was having a problem understanding it with him because he cared so much about his health and looking after himself.

John: Right. And as you looked into this, you found out that your father had served in the military on a Naval vessel and asbestos had been used on the Navy ship. And he was an engineer, so he was in the mechanical rooms where there was asbestos on all the pipes and things like that and that’s how he was exposed to it. And of course, it didn’t come to light until many years later, as happens with mesothelioma. The initial exposure was years prior and then all of a sudden you get this cancer and you wonder where it possibly came from, and it was from this exposure from many, many years ago. Right?

Doug: Exactly, right. Yeah. He was 18. And the weird thing about this cancer, when I started to research it and started to really, as you said, start processing it, I found out that a lot of times that this cancer can sit in your body dormant for 40 or 50 years before it starts to make its effects known. And the other thing I did learn, too, is that it doesn’t matter — of course my dad, because he was an engineer, he was exposed frequently, he had a wide exposure — but even somebody who supposedly, they say, I remember reading this in a book which said dime size, the size of a dime, just a little bit of an exposure to asbestos, can basically bloom very slowly over time to take over your lungs.

And the other thing I suppose that I learned in trying to process and understand what mesothelioma was, what it is, is that there’s your lungs and then there’s a lining sort of that holds your lungs together. And when you get exposed to asbestos, that kind of lives or breeds in that lining that goes around your lungs. So when my dad eventually had his surgery, that was one of the things that was removed. So what was basically holding his lungs in his body after that was sort of a netting of some sort. I don’t know exactly how to describe it, a netting or sort of like…it was a man-made kind of thing that kept his lungs in the right place so that he could breathe.

John: Okay.

Doug: But that was the thing, that I had no idea that it was something like this. Again, it was just the initial shock of learning this and learning…I knew about my dad’s Naval service because he talked about it frequently. If you got him talking about it he would talk, he had funny stories about it. And so, I mean, when this happened I think he was just as upset to realize that’s how he contracted this. I mean, because this was a part of his life that he really appreciated.

John: And how old was your dad when he was diagnosed?

Doug: 67.

John: 67. And he was 18 when he was first exposed, when he was in the Navy, and then he was 67 when he was diagnosed?

Doug: Right.

John: So, it had been 50 years, like you said.

Doug: Right. 

What Stages of Grief Did You Go Through?

John:  So, you mentioned that at first you were kind of in shock about the diagnosis. That’s obviously one of those first stages of grief that they talk about, is that shock. What were some of the other stages of grief that you went through as your father was battling this cancer?

Doug: Well, I suppose, I don’t know if this is really a stage of grief, but I mean just that feeling of helplessness, that I wanted to help my dad, but I didn’t know how to. And of course I just felt sadness for my mom who was just beside herself, and she was just lost for my dad because they had been married for 47 years. So, many things were impacting me I suppose.

John: And so, what solutions did you seek at the time?

Doug: Well, once my dad had the initial surgery…because he couldn’t breathe, and that’s why they ended up draining this four liters of fluid around his lungs, because basically — I’m going to get a little medical here, but I’m not really a doctor — but I mean, as far as my understanding is that the linings kind of allow the lungs to contract and that once somebody has asbestos it basically shuts down that process and the fluid starts to build up around the lungs. So my dad did have four liters of fluid drained off of his lungs, which also is like, when you think about four liters of fluid, you think about like those large…the only thing I could compare it to is like those liter Coke or Pepsi bottles you see in the grocery store, how much fluid that was. 

What Resources Helped You Process the News?

John: So, one of the things that you did was doing some research about asbestos and mesothelioma. And did you find in doing that research and looking into it that that was able to help you process what was going on?

Doug: Yeah, I did. And I found that there were some resources out there for people going through this. And there were some places in the country that specifically knew how to, or this was more of their specialty for treating this kind of cancer because the one thing, and of course remember that this was 13 years ago when my dad was sick, the knowledge around mesothelioma was still pretty low. I mean, people just didn’t really still understand or even knew what it was. And they also didn’t really know how to treat it. I remember the doctor saying, “Well, your dad’s probably going to have to go see some kind of a specialist because this isn’t something that…” because this was a hospital in Dayton, Ohio, which is not a super small town, but it’s a small city and they didn’t have the resources there to treat my dad.

So, I remember the doctor saying that my dad would have to seek out some kind of specialist. So maybe I was looking into that too and looking into different things that my dad could possibly look into, all the while realizing and knowing, the way my dad was, that he was a very independent person and he was going to do what he wanted to do. So I would dig up some things for him and I left him with things to think about. He chose the path that he did. But I can’t say that if he went to more of a specialized place outside of Ohio that he would’ve had better results or he would’ve had a better quality of life.

John: Right. So he made a decision to stay close to home and be treated there.

Doug: Primarily because of his mother, because his mother was in Columbus and he wanted to stay close to her while this was going on, so that she didn’t have to travel to see him in a hospital or something. So that was one of his motivating factors for not going anywhere else. 

Mesothelioma Applied Research Foundation

John: So, after your father passed away, were there some things that were helpful to you and your family in terms of healing from that and being able to move forward?

Doug: Well, I suppose what I learned about was the Mesothelioma Applied Research Foundation. And I found out that they had a lot of people who specialized in this and they were working with doctors who were focusing specifically on treating mesothelioma and they had nurses, some hospice nurses who really worked with survivors. So, one of the things I did, and I did this a couple times, is go to this annual meeting that they have, or they used to have it, in Washington DC. I tried to get my mom to go with me and she wouldn’t go, so I went with my aunt, my dad’s sister. The first time I went with her and that was very difficult because there were all these people there who had it and survived and had it for longer. Like this one woman I was telling you about who just had it for many years and is still basically living her life.

Not that you wish, of course…that you’re envious of that. I mean, I guess you are in a way, but I mean, you kind of wish that those were the same results. I was wishing that was the same for my dad because it seems so unjust. But that was a good resource for me because I talked to people who basically went through the same thing. I met some women who were my mom’s age who had been through the trauma and tragedy of this, but they were learning how to move on with their lives. That was something that I was hoping that my mom would benefit from, but her response was the opposite. She just kind of shut down and became reclusive and really cut herself off from people and cut herself off from friends and kind of went into this very self-destructive mode of drinking and things.

And that was very difficult for me, because she wasn’t realizing what that kind of response was doing to me. She was looking at it from a very one-sided perspective. And I think it also affected my grandmother because shortly after my dad passed away, like a year or two years after, she was having health problems and she ended up passing away. I don’t say this lightly, but I think that she probably died of a broken heart, because my dad was very close to her, and they were very close, and so I think that that was probably too much for her.

John: Yeah. Probably that’s one of the things that maybe we don’t talk about enough is those unseen victims of asbestos and mesothelioma. It’s not just the person who died, but their families who are left behind. And like you said, everybody’s a little bit different. Your response was a little bit different than your mom’s or your grandmother’s. And everybody handles grief in a different way, but it’s often those people who are left behind who are almost the true victims of mesothelioma.

Doug: Right. And it tore me apart. I mean, it really did. I spent some time with my dad that I probably never spent with him when I was younger and we became close and I took him to his appointments and his chemo appointments. And he told me things that he hadn’t told me about before, with the house he grew up in, and how I got my middle name, and just weird little details that in other situations you probably wouldn’t have somebody talk about to you.

John: Right. Some conversations that you might not have had otherwise. So you can look back at that time and realize that while it was difficult to lose your dad, you did have that nice time together where you were able to learn a little bit more about each other and maybe have that be a little bit of a consolation to you.

Doug: Right. And also, I found that when my dad was going through this, he didn’t feel like he could talk to anybody about it but me, because he said he couldn’t talk to my mom because my mom would get very emotional and a bit unreasonable. I remember being with them, I was there for a visit, because when my dad was going through this I was living in California so I was like back and forth quite a bit coming to see him, and one time we were going to a doctor’s appointment and they got into this little argument and I thought, “This is the first time I’ve ever seen them argue.” And you could tell that this was a special reason why, because normally I would never ever see…they were very affectionate towards one another, they were always very loving. So I mean, to see them argue or bicker at each other in that way was so unusual.

Other Mesothelioma Resources

John: Doug, you mentioned the Mesothelioma Applied Research Foundation as one of the places that you reached out to and that was helpful to you. What are some other resources that you might recommend to mesothelioma victims and their families?

Doug: Well, I suppose I stay connected with the foundation, and for me personally, what I did was try to work with other people who were going through this and telling their stories and making sure that their stories got out there to the general public who really didn’t know about this cancer. And I still think, even 13 years later, that there’s still not a wide amount of information about this cancer out there. I mean, my mom always tells me she sees commercials for it, but I mean, I don’t have a TV, but I think the knowledge is still pretty low level out there. Of course, it’s nothing like breast cancer or pancreatic cancer. I mean, those are the cancers you kind of hear about. Mesothelioma you don’t, you don’t hear a lot about that.

So that was a resource for me, because it always…not only through the conference that they have, but also through their website and the newsletters they send out, because they send out information about new treatments and doctors who are focusing primarily on solving and treating this cancer and new therapies. One of the big ones is, I mean, there are so many different kinds of ways to address this kind of cancer. One that comes to mind is like an immunotherapy which I cannot specifically remember what that was, but there are several, three or four or five different ways that you could go about treating the cancer, treating mesothelioma, ways of doing that. So that was helpful.

And of course being a writer, I really wanted to be involved and try to see if there was some other ways. I guess I stumbled upon asbestos.com. I found that and that went more deeply into, not so much mesothelioma, but just asbestos cancer. So that was my way of learning more about that. And of course I also read a few books about living in Montana, which is where basically the use of asbestos, well, the modern use of asbestos, started, and then a couple other books as well.

John: Yeah. You mentioned before we talked about a couple of those books. One was called “Defending the Indefensible”. Is that about the Libby, Montana exposure?

Doug: That’s a very interesting book and I wish I would’ve read the whole thing. I read about half of it, but it talks about the use of asbestos being used all the way back to the Egyptians. The type of wrapping that they wrapped a lot of the mummies, and the reason that they used asbestos, even the Egyptians found that, is that it had this ability to preserve things. It had the ability to be…you couldn’t burn it. Or if it did burn, it would burn at a very slow rate. So it was used to wrap, basically, the Egyptian dead in, and they were wrapping them in that.

And so, this book even goes back to that and how it was used in army blankets during World War I. It was used in some of the first buildings here in America, like some of the old Western towns and they were using it there. So it’s pretty amazing because before I read that book I only knew about the modern use of it and its discovery in Libby, Montana where it was heavily mined. But it turns out that asbestos is pretty much mined all over the world, Russia and Australia, those are the two that come to mind, and there’s probably some other places where it’s mined.

John: Right. And then the other book that you mentioned was “100 Questions and Answers About Mesothelioma”. You found that one to be helpful as well?

Doug: Right, and this is a book that used to be available, it probably still is, but there wasn’t a lot of knowledge about that book, and it was on the mesothelioma website. And at that point if you just kind of like put in a request they’d send it to you for free. I don’t think you even had to pay for it. Now it looks like if you go out to Amazon you can find it, it’s pretty widely available, I guess. But I remember giving that book to my dad. I read it as well then I gave it to my dad and he seemed pretty appreciative to have it. Because I think that his knowledge of mesothelioma, even though he was the victim of it, his knowledge was very limited and he was trying to understand it himself.

John: Right. All right. Well, that’s really great information, Doug, and I really appreciate you sharing more about your story and about your father. Thanks for taking the time to talk with me.

Doug: Okay, John, thank you. Thanks for taking the time to talk to me as well.

John: And for more information on mesothelioma visit the mesothelioma lawyers, Satterley & Kelley, at satterleylaw.com, or call the firm’s office at 855-385-9532.

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Common Asbestos Exposures That Can Lead to Mesothelioma (Podcast)

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In this podcast, Paul Kelley from the law firm Satterley & Kelley talks about where and how people get exposed to asbestos. He explains occupational risks, military risks, and secondary exposure. He also explains why the long latency period from exposure to mesothelioma diagnosis can make it challenging for people to identify when and where they were exposed.

John Maher: Hi, I’m John Maher. I’m here today with Paul Kelley. Paul is a partner with the Kentucky personal injury law firm, Satterley & Kelley, which has over 30 years of collective experience in handling cases involving mesothelioma and asbestos exposure. Welcome, Paul.

Paul Kelley: Good morning, John. How are you?

Where Is Asbestos Found?

John: Good, thanks. So, Paul, why is it important to know about asbestos and where it can be found?

Paul: Well, unfortunately, John, asbestos is still prevalent in America today. I mean, historically it’s been used for more than a hundred years in the United States and throughout the world. While it certainly has been regulated for the last 50 years and banned in some instances, you can still find it in a lot of products and you can still find it in a lot of buildings, houses, places where people work and live and populate every day. And unfortunately, people aren’t fully aware of asbestos. And I get the question all the time. Is that still out there? Is that still a problem? And I tell people unfortunately it is still out there. It is still a problem.

And so what we try to do is, as a part of our responsibility as lawyers who have been representing mesothelioma patients and people exposed to asbestos for years, is not just try to go back in time and help them when they get sick, but try to prevent people from getting sick 30, 40 years down the road. Because unfortunately, an exposure today will not result in disease tomorrow. It will result in disease 20, 30, 40 years from now when young people have families and when older people are hitting their golden years, and now they’re suffering from this devastating cancer and they don’t know why they got it.

So we try to provide information through forums like this, as well as through our website, to try to help people understand that while it may not be at the top of the list of dangers that they’re concerned about, it’s something you should be aware about, because it is, it’s the silent killer. The asbestos has what we call the onion properties. There’s no smell, there’s no taste to it. I mean, it’s out there, you get exposed, and people don’t think anything of it, and then 30 years later when they get sick, they try to figure out, “Well, where was I exposed?”

And I would say that better than half of our clients come in and they have no clue where they were exposed until they talk to us and we start exploring and investigating and coming up with a history of their work and their life experiences. And most of the time we’re able to pinpoint it to a particular job or to a particular set of exposures or an environmental situation. But it’s tough. And it’s especially tough when it’s not the top of people’s list of things to be worried about. But certainly, if things get bad and someone’s diagnosed with a disease many years down the road, it becomes very important at that point.

Most Common Types of Asbestos Exposure

John: Right. So what are some of the most common ways that a person could be exposed to asbestos?

Paul: Well, certainly the most common is occupationally. For close to 30 years, we’ve represented people who worked in a variety of jobs and occupations where they were exposed to asbestos, from manufacturing jobs to electricians, plumbers, pipe fitters, folks that worked in manufacturing plants, power plant workers, plastic molding operations. So certainly occupationally is one source.

Another source is unfortunately the family members of people who lived with people that worked in some of those occupations that I mentioned a moment ago, they are exposed when the worker family member comes home and has asbestos on their clothing from a full day of work. We’ve heard a number of times from children and spouses who never worked in asbestos, a husband or wife or dad came home, and we ran through the door and gave them a big hug and were exposed in that way. Didn’t think anything of it at the time. The spouses and children who washed the exposed family member’s clothing. They frequently would shake the clothing out because it’s laden with dust.

But the biggest issue with that respect is the fact that once it gets into the home, it’s there to stay. It doesn’t matter how much exposure the worker had on a particular day, particular month or throughout their career. Once they bring asbestos into the home and it gets into the carpeting, it gets into the furniture, gets into the air conditioning and heating vents, then unfortunately you have an asbestos problem there to stay, and everybody in the home is getting exposed. So that’s certainly a way that we’ve seen a number of people exposed throughout the 30 years we’ve been doing this.

Unfortunately, there are products in the home that people are exposed to. Most recently, talcum powder, Johnson & Johnson’s baby powder and other talcum powder products that are seemingly harmless products that are inside your home, those products have been proven. We have proven routinely in litigation that they contain asbestos. And it’s probably the last thing in anyone’s home that they expected to cause them harm, but those types of products.

In addition, there have been products historically in the home. Drywall, specifically the joint compounds used for sanding down and mudding walls contain asbestos. Floor tile. So there’s a number of ways that people can be exposed in the home.

And then environmentally, we’ve had a number of people that lived in the vicinity of asbestos plants or plants that used asbestos, and they were exposed just sitting in their home, and unfortunately having the misfortune of living too close to a place that utilized millions of pounds of asbestos on a monthly basis. So those are certainly some of the most common ways that we’ve seen that people have been exposed to asbestos.

Jobs Most Commonly Linked to Asbestos Exposure

John: Okay. Let’s talk a little bit about each one of those in a little bit more depth. So in terms of the jobs that are the most common ways to be exposed to asbestos, you mentioned a few of them. Can you talk a little bit more about that and what are some of the most common jobs that people have where they might have been exposed to asbestos?

People Who Worked With Raw Asbestos

Paul: Absolutely. So historically, the heaviest groups of people who were exposed were the people that actually worked with raw asbestos back in the ’30s, ’40s and throughout the 1970s, that made a variety of products, including asbestos insulation. I mean, that was probably one of the most significant products. So the people that worked in those plants.

Now, in the United States in 2022, there’s certainly not a lot of people that are exposed in that way. But again, given how long this country used asbestos, there’s certainly a number of people that were engaged in those occupations that are still alive and they’re still very much at risk, so anyone who worked in an asbestos manufacturing plant.

People Who Dealt With Asbestos Insulation or Asbestos Abatement

Aside from that, insulators throughout the ’50s, ’60s, and into the ’70s and ’80s, insulated numerous facilities with asbestos-containing pipe, block insulation, and numerous thermal insulation products. They also, in the ’50s, ’60s, ’70s, and maybe into the ’80s, installed it. And then in the ’80s, ’90s, 2000s and beyond, several of them were again exposed when they were engaged to remove or abate asbestos from those facilities. So anybody that’s involved in asbestos abatement, hopefully their employers are using the safest and greatest methods for abatement, but unfortunately I think statistics have proven that they’re still at risk.

Automobile Mechanics, Especially Brake Mechanics

In today’s day and age, I think automobile mechanics are still at great risk of suffering asbestos exposure. Historically, brakes contain asbestos going back from the 1930s until the early 2000s. You won’t find too many American manufacturers that still utilize asbestos in brakes today. However, you will find foreign manufacturers that do, and some of those foreign manufacturers will send products to the United States, and I think that there’s probably still a limited amount of asbestos that mechanics are exposed to.

But historically, prior to 2001, mechanics or anyone that was involved in any sort of brake operation, whether it was somebody that worked in a Ford plant or GM plant installing asbestos brakes onto a brand new vehicle, or the auto mechanics that worked at the dealership auto shops day in and day out removed and installed asbestos containing brakes. Or the guy that had the mom and pop mechanic operation, and brake jobs were the most prevalent job that they would get because it was the easiest to do and it was the most common task that someone needed.

We have represented people that were called rebuilders of brake products. So they took asbestos linings, brand new linings, and put them on to what’s called a refurbished or remanufactured brake shoe, and they would be exposed in a variety of ways, from drilling into the lining, sanding the lining, grinding the lining. So brake mechanics unfortunately were exposed fairly regularly in the United States through the early 2000s. And with the latency period with asbestos, we expect unfortunately that quite a few folks will develop this disease in the future as a result of that type of exposure.

Pipe Fitters and Plumbers

In addition, pipe fitters and plumbers, particularly pipe fitters that worked in industrial commercial settings. They worked with asbestos gaskets. They were frequently working around thermal insulation around pipes and other equipment and plants, and they historically had heavy exposures.

Tile Manufacturers

Tile manufacturers or folks that worked in tile manufacturing companies. Tile contained asbestos for decades, probably deep into the early 2000s. Asbestos containing talc and other products were a component to tile, so anybody that worked in that kind of a plant, they were not told that that tile contained asbestos by either the manufacturer or their employer. So we frequently will get new clients who will say, “Well, I worked in this plant for years. They made tiles. There was no asbestos in the plant. I never had any exposure.” And we tell them the grim truth, which is that they had decades of exposure using those kinds of products.

Power Plant Workers

Power plant workers. Power plants were loaded with asbestos. These are the old power plants that used steam turbines and boilers. And many of those plants were built all throughout the, let’s say ’30 to 1970s. The turbines contain asbestos, the boilers contain asbestos, the piping connected to them contained asbestos. And so folks that built those facilities, folks that worked in those facilities, they were all exposed on some level. And it really only came down to what their job title was as to whether they were exposed to a lot, or maybe a relatively limited amount over the course of their career. And usually they’re pipe fitters, they’re electricians, they’re millwrights. Those were the kinds of occupations that frequently worked in those plants and were frequently exposed to asbestos.

Electricians Who Worked in Industrial Settings

I just mentioned electricians. Electricians of all type, but particularly electricians that worked in industrial settings, they would have exposures similar to the pipe fitters and the insulators, in that they were frequently exposed to thermal insulation, which was maybe not directly associated with their work, but they couldn’t avoid it from what they were doing. In addition, there were a lot of plastic products like circuit breakers and breaker boxes and a variety of electrical equipment that electricians worked with, that they drilled into on a frequent basis and were frequently exposed.

Employees in Plastic Molding Plants

And probably the other most common that we’ve seen is people that worked in plastic molding plants that were exposed to some of the molding compounds that were used to make products like what I just discussed a moment ago, the circuit breakers and breaker boxes and the variety of electrical products. A lot of those things were made with asbestos, and somebody had to make those products, and those folks were heavily exposed for a lot of years. And those kinds of products were used deep into the 1980s, for sure.

John, there’s a lot of others. I mean, we could spend the whole day talking about all of the occupations. But the bottom line, if somebody worked in a manufacturing plant prior to 1980, prior to 1990, if they were an electrician, insulator, pipe fitter, they were more than likely exposed to asbestos at some point in time. And certainly folks in the automotive industry, if they handled brakes ever, then they were certainly exposed.

Time From Asbestos Exposure to Mesothelioma Diagnosis

John: Right. And you’re talking here about people who had this exposure, in some cases 40 or even 50 years ago, but that’s just how long it takes, right, from when they’re initially exposed to asbestos to when they might develop a cancer like mesothelioma.

Paul: Absolutely. I mean, the statistics will show that people have been diagnosed as early as 10 years, but that’s pretty uncommon. Usually the diagnosis comes 30 to 40 years after the first exposure to asbestos. And so, again, frequently people will contact me and say, “I was an accountant for last 30 years,” and then we dig in a little bit and find out that before they earned their college degree, they worked in a manufacturing plant for two summers and were exposed to asbestos, and they forgot about that because that was 40 years ago.

And so it’s really a difficult disease and difficult disease process, because that latency period, and that’s what we call it, latency, from the time of first exposure until diagnosis. Because it is so long, it’s just it’s hard for people to go back and remember everything. And that’s why they need someone to ask them the questions, because otherwise, they were kept in the dark frequently and just didn’t know. And physicians who treat patients with this disease will dig in a little bit, and most times be able to pinpoint where the exposures were.

How Common Is Secondary Asbestos Exposure?

John: And you said that in a lot of cases, it’s not just an exposure of that person who is sick, that they had one of these jobs, that there’s a secondary exposure to danger here as well, that you could have a family member who was exposed and then maybe brought that back in into the home, and like you said, shook off the dust and it gets into the air and the carpet and the air conditioning, whatever it is.

Talk a little bit more about that secondary exposure. Is that a large number of people that you find, that when you sit down with them, they didn’t have the exposure themselves, but they apparently got it because they had maybe a family member who was exposed to asbestos?

Paul: Absolutely, John. So we have been handling what we call household exposure, take-home, secondary. We’ve been handling cases like that for more than 20 years. In terms of prevalence, I would say that probably half of the cases that I worked on for the last 10 years or so have been that kind of a case.

John: Wow.

Paul: And the problem with asbestos is that it doesn’t take a lot to cause this disease process mesothelioma. There’s some other condition: lung cancer, asbestosis, which is a non-cancerous asbestos condition. The studies seem to bear out that it takes a significant amount of exposure over a long period of years to cause those diseases. The medical and scientific evidence indicates that with respect to mesothelioma, that short exposures over a short period of time can lead to this devastating disease process. So when you’re talking about people that are exposed in the home to a family member’s clothing… I’m an advocate for my clients. I think any exposure is significant exposure, but I would concede that that kind of exposure is not the same as a person that worked in the insulation craft for 30 years. But they’re still getting a significant exposure that increases their risk of getting mesothelioma.

So what we’re seeing today is people that… I’m 48-years-old, and we are getting calls from people that are around my age, a little younger, a little older, and they’ve had white collar jobs their entire life, and they have no clue as to how they could be exposed. So we start going through the history and we determine, well, they never worked in a manufacturing plant. They never used Johnson’s baby powder, for example. But dad worked at a plastic manufacturing company, or mom worked at a powerhouse, and we see that that’s clearly where an exposure was. And once it gets on the clothing, it gets into the car the parent or the spouse drove home in, and it’s just there.

And think about in today’s day and age, if somebody identified asbestos at a home or at a manufacturing plant, they would bring out abatement companies to come in and they’d wear the Tyvek suits, which we frequently call the moon suits. And they’d have what’s called HEPA vacuums, these industrial vacuums that are made specifically to remove asbestos from a facility. And when they get done, the goal is to basically have zero, zero asbestos.

Well, in the home, once asbestos gets into the home… And, John, you can probably relate and maybe some of our listeners can. When I was growing up, everybody had the shag carpet. You know what I’m talking about. And so you couldn’t get any dust out of that stuff. Well, imagine bringing a carcinogen home day in and day out, and it gets into the carpeting. People walk through and stir up dust. Mom or dad or someone in the family is running a vacuum cleaner. That vacuum cleaner, the regular Hoover, it doesn’t remove the asbestos, it stirs it up. That’s what it does.

How Long Has the Medical Community Known About Secondary Asbestos Exposure?

John: Right.

Paul: And the studies on this have been interesting. This is not a new phenomenon. We’ve learned over the years that back in the 1960s, and in fact, 1960, when asbestos was first recognized as the cause of mesothelioma, mesothelioma was really recognized as the disease process. In addition to the occupational exposures that were certainly already identified as having been a problem, the studies started to identify people that were exposed in the home, to their spouse or to their parent. And that was a famous study in 1960, and then there was another one in 1965. And by the time OSHA came into effect, the Occupational Safety Health Act, in the early 1970s, OSHA had implemented regulations in part to try to prevent people from being exposed to asbestos-laden clothing of the worker.

So it’s been something that the medical and scientific literature have identified as a problem for 50, 60 years now, and it’s certainly something that all of our regulatory agencies, as well as some of your trade organizations have identified as a significant problem. And so people have unfortunately had to suffer this disease, simply because they were unfortunate enough to live in the household of someone who unknowingly brought home asbestos day in and day out for decades, exposing their spouse and their loved ones. It’s really been a pretty terrible problem that we’ve seen over the years, and I don’t anticipate that that’s going to change any time soon, again, given the latency issue that we’ve discussed already.

Products That Contain Asbestos

John: Right, right. You also mentioned products that have historically had asbestos in them, like talcum powder and drywall, floor tile, things like that. Tell us a little bit more about those products, and are there still products that are being manufactured or used today that still have asbestos in them?

Paul: Yeah. So I think we’ve touched on a lot of them already, but historically I think I’ve seen the statistic that there were 3,000 products that were manufactured with asbestos, dating back to the 1930s and ’40s. Again, occupationally, we’d see thermal insulation and brakes and joint compounds and gaskets. And we’ve also seen things like sewer pipes. Look like concrete, but they were made of something that contained asbestos. There was a point in time in the 1950s where Kent cigarettes, manufactured by the Lorillard Tobacco Company right here where I’m residing in Louisville, Kentucky, contained asbestos for about five years. And it was advertised as the safe cigarette, and then it, of course, was not.

Circuit breakers, panel boxes. We’ve mentioned floor and ceiling tiles, drywall, roofing shingles. So people have removed roofing shingles and the adhesives the roofing shingles are laid down, and those things contain asbestos. Sometimes paneling on houses contain asbestos. So today we have our vinyl or our aluminum siding, but back in the day, some of those things actually contained asbestos. So there’s been so many products over the years.

In today’s day and age, I would say that there’s probably some construction products that are still used, some sealants, things that already come in a mixed format which are probably a little bit safer, but there’s some things that are still utilized where they have to be mixed with water in a dry manner, and people that work in the construction industry are still exposed. I think there’s still some brakes in the United States, that they’re imported from foreign sources, where a lot of our foreign countries don’t take asbestos as seriously as we do in the United States.

And some of our foreign countries take asbestos even more seriously than we do in the United States. But I would say that people that are in the automotive industry in particular should be very, very concerned about making sure that they understand what they’re working with, and particularly if it’s a brake or a clutch. Sometimes the clutch linings also contain asbestos. I think those are things that they could still be exposed to today.

And of course, I’m sure that you and a lot of folks who are listening may have been keeping up with talcum powder issues, and we’ve really blown the doors off in the last seven or eight years about Johnson & Johnson and other talcum powder manufacturers, that their products contain asbestos. The talc that is used to manufacture talcum powder, it’s mined. It’s a naturally occurring product that’s mined in various parts of the United States, various parts throughout the world, and that talc contains asbestos. And these talcum powder manufacturers have put it into their talcum powder and people are exposed.

In 2001, I believe, maybe the end of 2000, Johnson & Johnson, after facing the onslaught of litigation for both mesothelioma as well as other types of cancer, actually took baby powder off the market. You can still buy corn starch-based baby powder today, but the talcum powder versions have been taken off the market. But there are others. There are other companies that are still selling talcum powder that we believe contains asbestos. And given the fact that there are proven safer alternatives to any talcum powder product, I would recommend that no one use anything that contains talcum powder in this day and age, because the consequences many years down the road could be devastating.

Exposure to Asbestos in the Military

John: Absolutely. Yeah. So finally, are there any other building types or maybe unusual types of places that we didn’t mention before that maybe could lead to an asbestos exposure?

Paul: You know, I think we’ve covered most everything, but I would be remiss if I didn’t mention the millions of military personnel who have been exposed to asbestos historically. Most of our Naval ships in the United States contained asbestos probably into the ’80s. Certainly anything that was built prior to 1972 contained asbestos. And so many of our brave men and women of the military served on these ships in some capacity and were exposed to the giant boilers that were on these ships and the turbines that were on these ships.

And of course, they had thousands of feet of pipes that were wrapped in insulation. I’ve heard from so many of our military personnel that they slept in barracks where the piping that was ran through the ship was actually 10 feet, five feet above their head when they slept, and when the ship rattled, maybe when they fired the weapons on the ship, the dust would just fly off and fell on them and they were exposed.

And so we’ve certainly heard of some other military installations, some of the barracks and other facilities associated with the military, and we’ve seen our fair share of clients over the years who have been exposed in that manner. But other than that, I think the most common things that we see are what we’ve discussed already, the manufacturing plants and older homes and things of that nature.

Contact Satterley and Kelley for Help If You’ve Been Exposed to Asbestos

John: All right. Well, that’s really helpful and important information, Paul. Thanks again for speaking with me today.

Paul: Thank you very much, John. I appreciate the opportunity.

John: And for more information about mesothelioma and asbestos exposure, visit the law firm of Satterley & Kelley at satterleylaw.com, or call 855-385-9532.

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My Journey After My Father Was Diagnosed With Mesothelioma

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Doug McNamee talks about his father, and the journey that he went through after his father was diagnosed with Mesothelioma, from not knowing about the disease to the extensive research and learning more about Mesothelioma and its causes.

John Maher:     Hi, I’m John Maher. I’m here today with Doug McNamee. Doug is a writer whose father was diagnosed with mesothelioma in 2008 and passed away in May of 2009, which led Doug down a path of researching mesothelioma and asbestos, which has continued to this day. Welcome, Doug. Thanks for being here.

Doug McNamee:           It’s great to be here and thanks, John.

Doug’s Father’s Background & Diagnosis with Mesothelioma

John:    So Doug, tell us a little bit more about your family and in particular, your father and his journey with mesothelioma.

Doug:   Well, my dad was probably a typical teenager. When he left high school he was 18 and not really sure what to do with his life. So, he ended up going into the Navy, and that’s where he started falling into a path of engineering. So, he was on a world War II Class destroyer called the USS Norris, which is what happened that a lot of those ships were recycled throughout the Naval service until the point where, of course, they were no longer functional. So, it turns out the Navy did use asbestos-based products for insulating a lot of the plumbing and lot of the water-based systems on ships. And because my dad was an engineer, he was pretty much everywhere that you could physically reach on the ship, doing things, attending to whatever…

John:    In the engine room and places like that.

Doug:   Right. He was going there to troubleshoot problems or whatever. And then the most telling thing to me that he told me about is, he would be laying in his bunk and he would see all this dust falling down on him. And not knowing what it was, it never occurred to him.

So, 50 years later, my dad, he was a golfer, and he was out playing golf. And he was a healthy guy and I wouldn’t say he was Arnold Schwarzenegger or anything like that, but he took care of himself. He didn’t smoke, he didn’t drink excessively. And he liked to walk on the golf course. Well, he noticed that he was out with a friend and they were playing golf and he’s all of a sudden realized that he was short of breath and he thought that was strange. And it wasn’t just an anomaly. It happened a few times, I suppose. So he made an appointment with his heart doctor and the heart doctor told him that it’s not really something with your heart, something probably with your lungs.

And so, from there, he made an appointment with his GP. And eventually ended up in the hospital and having procedure because they did see quite a bit of liquid around his lungs. And they were saying before they did the procedure that — I forget the exact term that they used, but it was sort of an unclassified thing with his lungs, so they couldn’t really classify what it was — but once they got in and started doing this surgery or the draining of the water from his lungs, they realized that it was mesothelioma. And they drained four liters of fluid off of his lungs.

John:    Wow.

Doug:   And of course, I remember my dad calling me and saying, “Oh, I think I might have cancer.” Of course, I was completely shocked to hear that because he would be the last person in the world that I would ever think would get cancer. And then the doctor came in after he had this procedure done and talked to us and mentioned that word, and I was like, “What in God’s green earth, is that?”

What Was Explained About Asbestos and Mesothelioma?

John:    Right. So that was going to be my next question was, when you got that diagnosis, you didn’t know anything about mesothelioma and what it was or what it was caused by or anything like that. What was on your mind, or what was explained to you then at that time?

Doug:   Well, very little. They just said that it was an asbestos-based cancer and they really didn’t tell us a lot really. And of course my mom’s head went to a tail spin and she kind of lost it. And we were both just in shock. So I went home that night and started to look into that, started to learn what this was. And I was surprised that there was so much information out there about it, because I don’t have a TV. And my mom even tells me to this day that she sees commercials for mesothelioma. So, to us, this is 13 years ago now, and it was just a complete storm from left field. It just never occurred to me, or I completely never had heard of this kind of cancer before.

John:    Right. Did the doctors, at the time that he was diagnosed, did they let you know what his prognosis was or did you expect it would be so little time that you’d have left with him?

Doug:   That’s a good question. I’m trying to remember because it’s so long ago now. I think the prognosis was not good because I do think I remember the doctor saying that, “Your dad probably has a year, tops.” And that’s when, you know, that after he got out of the hospital, we started really delving into different things. And he found out, through another appointment with a surgeon at Ohio State University, that he could possibly have this surgery and it might prolong his life a few years, a few years more. And he might have a quality of life where he could just continue to live his life until the point where he died. But I think, eventually, he was on that path. He was trying to figure out what would work for him.

Research Into Mesothelioma and its Causes

John:    So, you became the defacto researcher for the family. What kind of research process did you go through in order to try to understand mesothelioma and asbestos and learn more about that, in order to try to help your dad?

Doug:   Probably not very exciting, but mainly just spending a lot of time doing a lot of internet research and learning about it. I think that’s how I learned about my dad’s ship. I just happened to know the ship that he was on. And that’s how I found that about that ship. Interesting point to that is that many years later, the ship ended up being retired, of course, and got to the point where it ended up sinking somewhere, maybe in Mexico or the Caribbean somewhere offshore. And it broke apart and I saw something related that a lot of the sea life swimming around that ship was dying off. And I always wondered whether that was related to the ship being filled with asbestos, but it’s all hearsay.

John:    So, as you started to do this research, was there anything that surprised you when you learned more about asbestos and how it was used?

Doug:   Well, I suppose it was just that I didn’t realize how prominent the use of asbestos was in different areas of different industries, such as plumbing and brake lining and drywall and even things like duct tape. Stuff that you don’t ever think about, or you just take for granted and never really think about. And I think that definitely enhanced my knowledge about it, but I think reading this book about the use of asbestos and how it becomes formed from vermiculite, which was heavily mined in Libby, Montana. That was a real eye opener for me. And what happened to all the people in that town was just really disgusting.

And I know many years later, William H. Grace was sued by these families and he ended up getting off. So, he didn’t have to pay them anything, which is very sad, because people lost their families, their wives, their children, to being exposed to vermiculite that these miners would bring home on their clothing and they would, and their wives, their kids, would inhale it. And as they say, it’s like only a dime size amount of this and then it starts spreading like wildfire in your body. So evil stuff.

Encouragement for Families Dealing with Mesothelioma

John:    So, Doug, do you have any words of encouragement for those either diagnosed with, or maybe who have a family member who’s diagnosed with mesothelioma or a family member who has died because of mesothelioma?

Doug:   Well, I think the thing that I learned, and I think I learned this probably from several people that I met at these foundation meetings, is that mesothelioma doesn’t affect everybody in the same. It all depends on your immune system, of course. And how do you make a strong immune system while people say, eat the right foods and drink this and don’t do this. And it is just a freak thing because some people have got it — there’s this one woman I’ve seen, she’s had mesothelioma for a long time and she’s still around. And she was exposed years and years ago. So maybe it’s just her immune system, the way her body… and I’m not sure if she was getting treatments or anything or… I read a book once saying that if you stick to a strictly vegetarian diet and eat lots of vegetables and things like that maybe your chances of fighting off, not just mesothelioma, but other kinds of cancer are stronger.

So, I would say that for other people, families who are going through this, is that there is hope out there that maybe someone who does get infected, their body will respond in a positive way. And of course there are also a lot more treatments out there now for this. And the knowledge has grown…because my dad passed away 13 years ago. So it’s rarely changed and they’re coming up with new ways of treating people who get diagnosed with this. And it’s not such an unknown area anymore.

I would say if somebody were to be diagnosed today that their chances of surviving it, they’re better. It’s more a positive chance that they’ll survive and they won’t have to go through something like what my dad went through with having a lung and part of a ribcage removed. So it seems like there’s more options occurring.

John:    Doug, thanks again for speaking with me and for sharing your story about your father. I really appreciate it.

Doug:   Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time to talk to me, John.

John:    And for more information on mesothelioma, you can visit the mesothelioma lawyers, Satterley & Kelley at satterleylaw.com or call the firm’s office at 855-385-9532.

Teenagers Driving Big Rigs

Are Teenagers Driving Big Rigs?

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The shortage of people willing and able to drive large trucks across the country is causing increasing supply chain demands. There is a combination of truckers leaving the industry and people who are unwilling to live a life on the road driving large semis.

To combat the issue, a recent order now allows some people as young as 18 to start driving these large vehicles. Previously, the age limit was 21 since teens tend to crash four times as often as their older counterparts.

Here’s what you should know about the change and how it could impact safety on the road.

Why younger drivers?

Truck drivers are leaving the industry faster than usual. The combination of long hours, high demands, stress and low pay, are taking their toll and leading to higher levels of burnout.

While other industries can limp along through labor shortages by shifting workloads, the significant regulations in the trucking industry make it even more difficult to meet increasing demands and backlogged work. To meet the challenges of the driver shortage, President Biden passed a law allowing some younger drivers to make interstate trips.

Are younger drivers more dangerous?

Becoming a commercial truck driver requires a substantial amount of testing and training. While drivers must be able to demonstrate specific knowledge and skills, that is not all it takes to be a safe commercial driver.

One of the most critical tools a truck driver has is experience. Many drivers get years of experience before pursuing their commercial license, giving them a different perspective when driving a larger rig.

While these younger drivers may provide some relief in the midst of a shortage, in a job where a split-second decision can be the difference between a collision and getting home safely, experience is essential.

Louisville's most dangerous roads

Louisville’s most dangerous roads

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Each year on Louisville streets and roads, there is an average of 6,600 injuries and 76 deaths. This raises a question: Where and when are you most likely to get in a motor vehicle crash on a Louisville-area road?

The answer is 11 p.m. on a Saturday night in May or October, on Dixie Highway, according to crash statistics from the traffic safety organization Vision Zero.

The most dangerous roads

Here are the Louisville area’s most dangerous, non-interstate roads, in order of most dangerous to least:

  • Dixie Highway
  • Preston Highway
  • Highway 150 (both north and south of I-265)
  • East Broadway and West Broadway
  • Westport Road
  • Poplar Level Road
  • Breckenridge Lane
  • Fern Valley Road
  • 7th Street Road
  • Cane Run Road
  • Shelbyville Road

Most crashes, by time of day

When do accidents occur in Lousville? For number of crashes by hour, the three most dangerous hours are:

  • 11 p.m.
  • 4 p.m.
  • 7 p.m.

The least-dangerous hours are:

  • 11 a.m.
  • 10 a.m.
  • 8 a.m.

Most crashes, by day of the week

  • Most accidents: Saturday
  • Least accidents: Wednesday

Most crashes, by month of the year

  • Most: May and October (tied)
  • Least: January

Who is responsible for safety?

The Vision Zero safety program emphasizes “a shared responsibility between road users and transportation infrastructures in achieving zero traffic-related fatalities.” Louisville Metro Public Works is a member of Vision Zero.

To reduce the number of accidents, Louisville Metro Public Works has pledged to: “adopt a data driven decision-making approach; build strong partnerships with local agencies, institutions, and the general public; and ensure a safe and equitable mobility service.”

Until major improvements are made in Louisville-area transportation, it might be wise to avoid Dixie Highway on Saturday nights in May and October.

 

Paul J. Kelley Named A Super Lawyer For 2022

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Satterley & Kelley PLLC in Louisville is proud to announce that attorney Paul J. Kelley has been chosen as a 2022 Super Lawyer. Paul also received this distinction in 2021. Paul represents injury victims in a wide range of cases, with a special focus on asbestos and mesothelioma cases.

Each year, no more than 5 percent of the lawyers in the state receive the Super Lawyers honor. Congratulations Paul!